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For example, should society be responsible for someone with an autoimmune disease, or someone who was born disabled? Sure, I can agree with that. Should society be responsible if someone goes skiing and breaks their leg? Should society be responsible for a chain smoker’s lung cancer treatment? Here it’s not so clear anymore. We all pay a little into a common pot, but there are no shareholders to support, as it is nationalised medicine. The same payment covers a basic pension. Yes, this is the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this case in my country too. 50% of my income goes to taxes, state-funded healthcare and a state pension plan, yet I see the country’s infrastructure crumbling around me, I have to wait forever to get doctor’s appointments, and said state pension plan will either fall apart before I ever can get use out of it, or it will be even more heavily subsidized by taxes than it currently is. It’s not all so rosy here as American leftists make it out to be. Should society be responsible if someone goes skiing and breaks their leg? Should society be responsible for a chain smoker’s lung cancer treatment? Here it’s not so clear anymore.

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You’re costing them more money than they’re costing you. The UK recently did a study and they found that from the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this three biggest healthcare risks; obesity, smoking, and alcohol, they realize a net savings of £22.8 billion (£342/$474 per person) per year. This is due primarily to people with health risks not living as long (healthcare for the elderly is exceptionally expensive), as well as reduced spending on pensions, income from sin taxes, etc.. No, it’s clear. Yes, we should help people who are suffering. Your health is fundamental to your existence it’s not a luxury. I mean, it’s not even ours to judge whether people were “really responsible” for their illness it’s a fantasy to believe you could separate those who “deserved it” from those who “didn’t” (an entirely subjective judgment anyway), so you couldn’t make any practical policy out of that even if you wanted to—but even if you magically could, you should still help them, because someone who’s ill has a fundamental need for help which is more crucial than other needs.
You’ll quite possibly make a bad decision one day that lands you in the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this hospital. You shouldn’t be paying it off the rest of your life because you were “responsible” either. Do you understand how your car insurance works? Any insurance works that way. You subsides the worst offenders. So just think of it like you do insurance, which you pay for on your car, but its not a car it’s a human. Why would you frame it like that when everyone already pays for other people’s medical expenses. That’s literally what insurance is. By all means, provide a single example. In hundreds of thousands of comments I’ve read on healthcare, I’ve never seen a single person that thought that. Although I’ve seen thousands clarify that of course they don’t think it’s paid for with fairy dust and unicorn farts.

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I’ve also asked thousands of people just like you for a single example of somebody that thinks that, and not a single person has ever been able to do it. Surely you’ll be the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this first though, since you’re so confident. One benefit in the universal healthcare I have to pay for via taxes, and the reason while calling it free is fine for me, is, that it’s already payed for and whenever I need it I don’t have to think twice if I can afford it. And this is one of the reasons why universal healthcare sounds expensive but ends up being cheaper on the long run. As it’s already payed, people are going to preventive examinations like cancer screening or visiting the ER when something feels odd, resulting in earlier diagnosis/treatments of stuff leading to cheaper treatment and higher chances of survival. This freedom is worth a lot! Some people are arguing, that they don’t have to pay if they don’t break their bones, but how big is the chance that they spend money on preventive examinations or on going to the ER before they are fully sure that they’re fucked? They wouldn’t because why should you spend money just to be informed that all’s good? Why should they spend a fortune for ER just to get confirmation that they’re fine? It’s a waste of money, but only if you directly have to pay for it, not if you already payed for it and therefor deserve it.
There are obvious pros and cons with any system humans can come up with. There are benefits to the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this American system and there are benefits to socialized systems. It’s not as if the socialized system is always better, there are of course downsides, just like with the American system. Overall though most Americans do want socialized medicine. They are just powerless to do anything about it because our political system from the start has been corrupted by special interests. It’s not as simple as voting for a certain party because both parties are controlled largely by the same interest. Of course there are differences between parties too. To your question though, yes some Americans do fear socialized medicine. There’s no real universal answer though. For all the reasons people have they may get hung up on X and forget that our own system has issues Y that socialized systems don’t have. Not all countries with socialized systems have a private option. I think we can all agree that if we were sick and dying and there was a low chance of survival with a treatment we would at least like the option to take it right? Well in a socialized system that treatment may not be prioritized for somebody so sick, so you may need to wait. But what if you don’t have the time. That’s a major benefit of the US system, money trumps everything really. If you can afford it you can get it. That’s very freeing because it puts you in control. People will bring up finances but that’s your responsibility not anybody else’s.
There’s a racial component where some people are still quite racist towards Black And indigenous people and they don’t want to see them get anything for “free”. We currently have major shortages of medical professionals. If everybody can get care then the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this amount of care those who currently benefit from the system can get will be much less than now. Hope this gives some insight as to why. But really I don’t think most Americans want our system. We just have no choice. Surveys show most Americans do want a universal system. Please stop writing to me about socialized medicine. I’m just answering a question. If you disagree write your own answer. As bad as our system may be overall, people with high paying jobs and good benefit packages have excellent health insurance today. The system works quite well for these people and they don’t want to risk what they have on an unknown future government organized system. Until they run into the wall that private insurance companies have for anything they don’t want to cover. My wife had extensive radiation treatment after multiple cancer surgeries, and the “excellent health insurance” company decided that they didn’t want to pay and we got a bill for $400,000. The hospital immediately got involved, and the insurance company (Anthem Blue Cross) claimed that they had only “pre-authorized the pre-authorization.” The hospital said they had never heard that excuse. After contacting the state ombudsman, the insurance company suddenly decided they had pre-authorized the radiation.
This was followed a few months later by a fine needle aspiration for the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this thyroid as my wife had some discomfort. It was negative and the insurance company said they would cover nothing more. We moved to Europe a few months later, she went to the doctor, and they scheduled an endoscopy and bronchoscopy for the next day, saying they could see externally there was a problem. She had surgery a week later, they surgeon said her thyroid was huge and had started to descent into her lung. There are undeniable benefits of the american health system. Just because you struggled with your insurance doesnt reflect on the care you received. If you read his comment, if they hadn’t moved to Europe then his wife’s recurrence of cancer moving toward the lungs wouldn’t have been tested for and therefore not discovered until things were much nastier. “Patient would have died” is absolutely a reflection on care. A universal system doesn’t mean an end to the private health insurance sector though. Almost all countries with universal health care also have a bustling private health insurance sector as well
Yes but they are risk adverse. Most people are satisfied with the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this system but want some changes but not enough agree on what would be useful. IMO the best bang for the buck is all payer rate setting. Medicare drug pricing and the work on MRI or X-rays cost $100. Some proposals completely outlaw the concept of private healthcare. The argument is it will create a two tier system. For example, the Medicare for All proposal from Sanders abolishes private health insurance/care. Fuck that I have a high paying job with “great benefit” and a wife with chronic migraines. The system doesn’t work well for us. Every change of insurance is a nightmare. Having to rejustify her meds, switch doctors, and so on. And I switch insurance basically every two years on average. Sometimes work changes insurance, sometimes I get laid off, we get acquired, or I change jobs. Yet I’m paying a lot for insurance and my work is paying even more.
I’m confused what countries have social healthcare that means you can’t get private care? Not to mention anyone rich enough to benefit from the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this current US system can just go to another country and pay for care. For instance non approved drug treatments in the UK have the rich just flying to Europe or the US and paying for it. If you’re already selling your house to pay for bog standard cancer treatment you could still sell your house for experimental expensive treatments abroad. Here in Canada there is no private option. Apparently Canada and Cuba are pretty much the only places like this. So rich Canadians fly down to the US to someplace like the Mayo Clinic. Just to underscore the point about shortages and how that affects access to cars. Many of our healthcare professionals in the USA have come from countries with socialized medicine and fixed prices. This is very often used as evidence that fixing our prices would reduce the number of medical professionals in an already strained system.
The other examples shown and used are how our governments already manage healthcare foe the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this VA, Medicaid, Medicare where recipients have long waits and limited options. This highlights a significant factor in peoples fears. It’s not that we fear FREE healthcare. We fear how our government will implement it. I’d just point out that in the US where I live there are already very long waits for everything but emergency care. Need a dermatologist? 8 weeks. Need a physical exam? 7 weeks. Need to get tested for the flu? 3 day wait. Stomach pain and acid reflux? 3 week wait for a gastro scope. Need urgent spine surgery? 4 week wait, then surgery delayed for another month the day before surgery… I don’t see the advantage of private insurance these days. It’s not better quality, it’s not faster, and it sure as heck isn’t cheaper! Plus the insurance companies are always trying to wriggle out of covering things… Private insurers need to get their act together because the only advantage that was holding up even pre-pandemic was the “efficiency” of getting care, and that’s gone now, too. I pay for private healthcare insurance despite the NHS because the NHS is so shockingly bad that I would seriously fear for my life if I had to depend on it for anything other than the most superficial/trivial things.
It’s actually hard to overstate how bad it is, so essentially I have to pay twice for healthcare, once through taxation and again through an insurance scheme. Also, those ‘death panels’, they’re real, not only just in terms of them refusing treatment after doing a cost/benefit analysis, but also in terms of the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this government will go as far as taking you to court, as you are dying, in order to stop you seeking any alternative ,potentially life prolonging, treatment elsewhere even if you are paying for it yourself. Read about what happened to Sudiksha Thirumalesh if you doubt this. As someone who works in healthcare, and even moreso in a field where my companies product is sold all over the world, I cannot understate how often I hear stories like this in the UK, Canada, and Aus. People with diabetes waiting months to get a limb that’s dying seen, and by the time they do, it’s become so bad the limb has to be amputated. Canadians coming south into the US for special surgeries and treatments. Basically, if you need to see the Dr for a cold, or have an actual emergency, you’re alright off in these places. If you have anything chronic, want elective surgeries for measurable QoL improvements, or your Dr. Tells you your condition requires seeing a specialist, you’re screwed.
I think of poor Alfie who they wouldn’t even let leave the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this country for healthcare elsewhere, just said he had to die. Most experts don’t hold the UK up as any kind of standard for what a healthcare system should be like. Personally, I think a multipayer system like Germany or the Netherlands is the way to go. Singapore’s market based system seems pretty good as well; they provide quality care at a fraction of the cost. That said, for standard care, like giving birth or breaking a leg, the NHS is pretty good compared to the US. US healthcare costs more than twice OECD average, and has inferior health outcomes for a lot of procedures. There are other things wrong with the American healthcare system, and simply socializing costs as they exist now would not fix the underlying problem.
Medicare for all as proposed by Bernie Sanders, which is the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this most likely way it would work, would cost 3-4 trillion dollars a year, which would nearly double federal spending and therefore the tax rate. The underlying problem is cost disease and dysfunctional service markets that aren’t required to compete on costs. Medical care costs far more than it should given what’s required to provide it. A bag of saline costs hundreds of dollars for basically no reason. You need to fix that problem before you socialize it. And if you do fix it, medical care becomes affordable enough that normal insurance actually works, and you can provide a voucher to low income people or something. Maybe it’s still worth socializing it, but the stakes are a lot lower either way. Federal discretionary spending. 2022 the Federal budget was $6.3 trillion. Doubling the discretionary budget from $1.7t to $3.4t would bump the overall budget to $8 trillion. Nowhere near double. Additionally, the CBO states that the M4A plan would cost $1.3 – 3 trillion per year, not 3-4 trillion.
Free healthcare really means we share the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this burden. It isn’t free. It costs money. It costs less because you take insurance companies and their profits out of the mix. The right does not share the belief that you should help me if I need it. They blow that out of proportion by claiming universal healthcare is socialist or communist. No Western country with universal healthcare is communist. The right believes in no free rides for ordinary individuals. They don’t believe that for corporations and the wealthy. But also corporate sponsored politics doesn’t want programs like this, because it allows you to risk freely leaving less ideal jobs for better ones or quitting. Same with unemployment insurance, and even to some extent welfare that isn’t workfare.
I think it’s a third of the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this cost to nationalize it. Just as important it is not tied to employment and there are no business men sitting in an insurance company making decisions about your healthcare or life time maximums. In my European country the taxes are insane while at the same time you don’t get a doc appointment easily and also have to pay for extra services like blood work. Since I’m never sick, I’d rather keep that part of my salary and use it for other things rather than making my insurance company rich My taxes in Europe are less than the annual cost of insurance and healthcare some years when I was in the US. I paid over $16,000 for insurance and $5000 above that some years. Two, “I’m never sick” is a foolish remark. You’re going to get older, with all that implies. For that matter, you could get hit by a car tomorrow and have multiple injuries that will never heal all the way. (It’s nice having a spleen, trust me.) You might also, at some point, come to care what happens to specific other people. A child, a romantic partner, whatever. Should they also trust to luck? It’s not free. The government collects taxes to support it. And regulates it so you don’t abuse the system, i.e. blocks that procedure because reasons. Wanna know the funniest part of American vs Canadian healthcare? The US spends more tax dollars per capita on healthcare than Canada does.
The American privatized system has jacked up prices so high that spending more gets US citizens less care compared to Canada They figure they’ll be taxed a lot and / or receive cheapened healthcare. Right now a lot of us get good insurance paid by our employers. How will that setup change if I’m taxed instead? Canada does exclusive single-payer. There is no CDPHP (my private insurance in NY) here. Want to go see a private doctor? You gotta pay out of pocket for that. Canada’s healthcare does not scale. The provinces are charged with the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this implementation of the healthcare mandate. If there is a massive population rush, they gotta wait till the next budget cycle to even think about adding more facilities or building hospitals. Before the bum rush of new immigrants over the last few years, I was on a 2 year waiting list for a family doctor. Sure, I could go to a clinic to get care right away if I needed it, but long term stuff, and some of the meds I’m on, can only be done by your family doctor. I still don’t have a family doctor here. Also, if you have a weird illness that health Canada doesn’t have a treatment guidelines for, you’re in paperwork/referral hell while your condition gets worse.
There are absolute pluses to having single payer healthcare – but I hate when other Americans – particularly New York liberals (where I’m from), who can’t even name all the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this lower provinces of Canada, say “WE SHOULD HAVE FREE HEALTHCARE LIKE CANADA!” There are like 120 countries that do single payer, Canada is the only one that does it the way they do, and it fucking sucks. Honestly, if we were going to do single payer, we’d be better off doing what Australia does, which is a 2 tier system. You have a private option and a public option. Don’t like waiting? Buy insurance, or have the option for it. Don’t have the money? No problem – the government care should cover you in emergent circumstances.
Also, the Trump 2024 It’s time to go Joe Shirt Also,I will get this median income for nurses in the US is $81,220. In the UK, is £33,384 ($42,070). Countries are able to deliver healthcare that’s free at the point of service by creating a monopsony on the labor market and exploiting healthcare workers. People that talk about “free” healthcare don’t mean it’s paid for by pixie dust and unicorn farts. They simply mean “free at the point of use”, to differentiate such systems from those where you might receive a bill that could be life altering, consistent with how the word is almost always used. But such systems are far cheaper. Our peers are spending literally half a million dollars less per person over a lifetime for healthcare on average, including less in taxes towards health, insurance premiums, and out of pocket costs than Americans, with better outcomes. Tell me that again in 2031, when healthcare costs are expected to have risen to an average of $20,425 per person in the US.

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